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Who Ya Gonna ....vote For .

Poll: Next election?

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#21 User is offline   Sticky 

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Posted 04 June 2013 - 11:04 PM

So you don't mind as long as they're British? How British? White? Black? Asian? How can there be British blacks or Asians lol no way. Unless somehow they had parents who were immigrants who came to our fine land some time ago and somehow gave birth to some kids here lol. Put a stop to THAT shit RIGHT NOW. Yeah?


*just read your edit when I previewed*

In what way does immigration impact you personally? Apart from your dislike of hearing Johnny Foreigner talk gibberish while you're shopping. Also cite some sources that don't sound like Daily Mail, EDL shite, because otherwise you just sound like an uneducated Daily Mail reader which probably means you read the Daily Star instead. I'm also betting you would vote EDL if you could.


edit: also is it only unskilled low paid workers you have issues with? Are skilled workers like surgeons and doctors ok?

This post has been edited by Sticky: 04 June 2013 - 11:06 PM


#22 User is offline   DrWu 

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Posted 04 June 2013 - 11:14 PM

Quote

having kids, claiming benefits, using our infrastructure when they either have not paid anything yet or never intend to. It takes the piss.


Can you qualify this?

1: What is the amount of kids that immigrants have - probably compared to the non recently immigrated population.
2: Using our infrastructure - presumably you mean doctors etc. How often do they use them compared to the usual Brit?

I would be interested to know where you are getting your facts for this from as the facts I read state something different. Are you really sure you have looked into this properly?

Edit: Re: the unskilled workers thing - yeah, on the one hand it is putting UK unskilled workers out of work (I suppose) but on the other it means I get my patio laid cheaper. This means I am better off. I probably spend the excess cash on other things though - so I put money into other areas like services or manufacturing. You can argue that immigrants with their cheap labour are putting "our" jobs at risk, but then I get my shit cheaper. And I am not saving, so anything I save goes into something else thus creating more jobs etc.

I really dont get the argument. And the poles near me clean my car amazingly. Whats not to like?

This post has been edited by DrWu: 04 June 2013 - 11:18 PM


#23 User is offline   King Phil 

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Posted 04 June 2013 - 11:35 PM

View PostSticky, on 04 June 2013 - 11:04 PM, said:

So you don't mind as long as they're British? How British? White? Black? Asian? How can there be British blacks or Asians lol no way. Unless somehow they had parents who were immigrants who came to our fine land some time ago and somehow gave birth to some kids here lol. Put a stop to THAT shit RIGHT NOW. Yeah?


*just read your edit when I previewed*

In what way does immigration impact you personally? Apart from your dislike of hearing Johnny Foreigner talk gibberish while you're shopping. Also cite some sources that don't sound like Daily Mail, EDL shite, because otherwise you just sound like an uneducated Daily Mail reader which probably means you read the Daily Star instead. I'm also betting you would vote EDL if you could.


edit: also is it only unskilled low paid workers you have issues with? Are skilled workers like surgeons and doctors ok?


What? I just said that anyone can be English it's not about race it's about nationality.

I already told you how immigration effects me. It bugs me - I prefer to be around people from my country, even if they are dickheads like you.

I actually don't read any papers, just watch the news, and read the Google news listings which are numerous and varied.
If you want a list of sources you can Google just as well as me. There's tons of info on it, as I said a lot of it is cited from central government. But again, my reasoning is purely anecdotal which is enough for me anyhoo.

If I wanted to vote EDL I would vote BNP.

I never said I have a problem with any "particular" caste of immigrant.


Quote

Can you qualify this?

1: What is the amount of kids that immigrants have - probably compared to the non recently immigrated population.
2: Using our infrastructure - presumably you mean doctors etc. How often do they use them compared to the usual Brit?

I would be interested to know where you are getting your facts for this from as the facts I read state something different. Are you really sure you have looked into this properly?

Edit: Re: the unskilled workers thing - yeah, on the one hand it is putting UK unskilled workers out of work (I suppose) but on the other it means I get my patio laid cheaper. This means I am better off. I probably spend the excess cash on other things though - so I put money into other areas like services or manufacturing. You can argue that immigrants with their cheap labour are putting "our" jobs at risk, but then I get my shit cheaper. And I am not saving, so anything I save goes into something else thus creating more jobs etc.

I really dont get the argument. And the poles near me clean my car amazingly. Whats not to like?


With common sense, yeah.

1> No idea, let's assume it's equal. Immediately you're taking from a system you pay nothing into - bugs me.
2> No idea, let's assume it's equal (though research suggests massive strain on A&E caused by immigration verses minimal on GPs). Immediately you're taking out a system you pay nothing into - bugs me.

The working issue is a totally different argument, and pay attention because I never said I had any problems with it for it's own sake - I honestly don't have any opinion on it for "works" sake other than the immigration it causes, which bugs me.

What's not to like? They're Polish.

I think you're both completely missing my point and you're talking about economic migration, I'm purely anti-immigration. The cure to the economic crisis? No idea.

#24 User is offline   DrWu 

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Posted 04 June 2013 - 11:40 PM

So what you're saying then is that you're not explaining your stance on facts or "overall good" arguments - you're saying that, essentially, you don't like foreign people. Presumably because they don't act in the way that you like, through cultural differences or whatever? You don't think they are worse people or genetically inferior but you dislike how they act because you are what you are and they are what they are.

Is it all foreign people or do you, for example, not mind Germans or French people?

#25 User is offline   King Phil 

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Posted 04 June 2013 - 11:48 PM

View PostDrWu, on 04 June 2013 - 11:40 PM, said:

So what you're saying then is that you're not explaining your stance on facts or "overall good" arguments - you're saying that, essentially, you don't like foreign people. Presumably because they don't act in the way that you like, through cultural differences or whatever? You don't think they are worse people or genetically inferior but you dislike how they act because you are what you are and they are what they are.

Is it all foreign people or do you, for example, not mind Germans or French people?


Well that's actually what I said in my first reply to you when you asked me why I would vote UKIP & I think I've explained pretty well. You said you don't like anyone at all so in fact I'm just more discerning than you are? Obviously I don't think people from other lands are genetically inferior... there are arguments to say they are actually but that's another issue again .... if I did, I'd have a problem with anyone whose ancestry is anything except Pure Blood. And I don't, at all.

No idea if it's all? Maybe. Don't mind tourists !

Actually I wouldn't even say I mind foreign people at all reflecting on it - been abroad a few times the people are fine ! I just don't want millions of them living on my island. :coolface:

This post has been edited by King Phil: 04 June 2013 - 11:57 PM


#26 User is offline   DrWu 

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Posted 04 June 2013 - 11:56 PM

I don't like most people, so therefore basing an immigration policy on who I like would be silly wouldn't it? Just because I don't like people I can't reasonably expect to set the UK s policy on who can come here and live. I mean, you'd be out the door then and where would that leave us?

:coolface:

You seem to have a far greater opinion of your skills of explanation than I do. Maybe I'm repeatedly reading things wrong, I'll try and take more care.

There's no such thing as Pure Blood btw.

So basically your immigration policy for a country of 60 million people and one of the richest and most powerful countries in the world can be summarised as this:

I don't like them, so they can't come in.

Is that about it?

#27 User is offline   King Phil 

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Posted 05 June 2013 - 12:02 AM

View PostDrWu, on 04 June 2013 - 11:56 PM, said:

I don't like most people, so therefore basing an immigration policy on who I like would be silly wouldn't it? Just because I don't like people I can't reasonably expect to set the UK s policy on who can come here and live. I mean, you'd be out the door then and where would that leave us?

:coolface:

You seem to have a far greater opinion of your skills of explanation than I do. Maybe I'm repeatedly reading things wrong, I'll try and take more care.

There's no such thing as Pure Blood btw.

So basically your immigration policy for a country of 60 million people and one of the richest and most powerful countries in the world can be summarised as this:

I don't like them, so they can't come in.

Is that about it?


Wrong, because I'm native. Your immigration policy has no effect on me - pay attention.

You should pay more attention - way back up there I said my main reason for voting UKIP was their immigration policy and that I agree with it, hence they get my vote.

Yes I used Pure Blood to highlight the extreme.

Quote


So basically your immigration policy for a country of 60 million people and one of the richest and most powerful countries in the world can be summarised as this:

I don't like them, so they can't come in.

Is that about it?


That's why we have a vote each.

#28 User is offline   DrWu 

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Posted 05 June 2013 - 12:05 AM

You're a penis.

#29 User is offline   Sticky 

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Posted 05 June 2013 - 01:12 AM

lol


"they bug me" is the reason immigration impacts you on a personal level. As good an argument as any ever made.

Forget what I said earlier, because you are, in fact, a complete fucking idiot.

#30 User is offline   Sticky 

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Posted 05 June 2013 - 01:14 AM

I would love to see some source info that validates your argument that foreigners are genetically inferior, that's possibly the best thing I've ever heard a racist say.

#31 User is offline   TheRobber 

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Posted 05 June 2013 - 01:17 AM

View PostKing Phil, on 04 June 2013 - 10:27 PM, said:

Don't 75% of Americans just look for R or D on their local ballot? Off topic but I found that interesting.

I don't just vote for an "R" or an "D". I go for the one whom has the most to offer to everyone and not one particular group in general.So I have voted split ticket and also others who are out of the norm of the "R" and "D", but then again I am not your typical American then. ;) I have many Republican friends that I have found annoying over the last few month as they are all about themselves...its "me me" and I have to fight back the urge to slap them :/ which is particular sad.

#32 User is offline   TheRobber 

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Posted 05 June 2013 - 01:35 AM

View PostKing Phil, on 04 June 2013 - 10:16 PM, said:



I don't like going to my local Tesco and hardly hearing English spoken, just random eastern European babble, same for my local station, and many places. It bugs me. I don't like people coming here & having kids, claiming benefits, using our infrastructure when they either have not paid anything yet or never intend to. It takes the piss. Ourselves and Norway are the only two countries left that allow it so freely. It pisses me off. I aren't even sure I'm classed as racist it's not a race thing - you can be any race you like & belong here as far as I'm concerned long as you're from here. Otherwise, fuck off.

LOL you sound like some Americans about Mexicans or any others But its mainly Mexicans as they say they should speak American English rather then us learn Spanish. They come here and have children, and send money back to their homeland for their families. LOL I don't mind others from other countries here..how else are you suppose to learn other cultures and be respectful towards them. I guess I am more open to others then yourself.

#33 User is offline   King Phil 

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Posted 05 June 2013 - 12:39 PM

View PostSticky, on 05 June 2013 - 01:14 AM, said:

that's possibly the best thing I've ever heard a racist say.


Thanks (y)


I feel the urge to vote even more now. I may in fact change my vote to BNP.

View PostSticky, on 05 June 2013 - 01:14 AM, said:

I would love to see some source info that validates your argument that foreigners are genetically inferior, that's possibly the best thing I've ever heard a racist say.



Do a search for African ancestry + diabetes, sickle cell anaemia, weight gain, gun crime, smaller brains, benefit fraud, slavery at home, cancer, malaria, asthma, lung disease, strokes, blood pressure.. like wow Darwin or God (depends on your beliefs) really want them dead eh? :)

This post has been edited by King Phil: 20 September 2014 - 10:59 PM


#34 User is offline   Sticky 

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Posted 05 June 2013 - 01:45 PM

View PostKing Phil, on 05 June 2013 - 12:39 PM, said:

View PostSticky, on 05 June 2013 - 01:14 AM, said:

that's possibly the best thing I've ever heard a racist say.


Thanks (y)


I feel the urge to vote even more now. I may in fact change my vote to BNP.



http://i.imgur.com/hGlp6oz.gif

#35 User is offline   Jackfrost 

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Posted 05 June 2013 - 05:02 PM

:hit:

#36 User is offline   Sticky 

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Posted 05 June 2013 - 05:43 PM

http://img2u.info/ckgni/i/gad38c08f.jpg

#37 User is offline   King Phil 

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Posted 06 June 2013 - 12:53 PM

Yes, because not wanting a massive influx of people to abuse our welfare systems or push our services over the edge as well as have huge social impacts makes me and millions of others Nazis.

#38 User is offline   DrWu 

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Posted 06 June 2013 - 02:47 PM

See, this is the thing though. You're basically statistically wrong.

Read this http://www.guardian....-welfare-magnet (it's about a recent cross Europe study of immigrants and welfare)

The point is that you're not basing your opinion on facts you're basing it on, I can only assume, anecdotal evidence ("my mate knows a pole who got a council house in a week") and media aimed at tapping into the basic nationalism that exists in the UK (which you seem to be displaying excellently). Immigrants claim less welfare and use the NHS less than the native population on a person to person basis (http://www.nuffieldt...immigration-nhs).

Tax avoidance costs the economy about 10 times as much as welfare fraud. It's usually committed by the rich as opposed to welfare fraud which is usually committed by the poor. But welfare fraud is hated and reported on far more than the rich avoiding tax - because, unfortunately, people like you get your knickers in a twist about it. It's the same with immigration - there's something about it that Joe public doesn't like. It's not statistically a net loss to the UK - actually it fluctuates from year to year, but it's mostly negligible compared to the overall government budget.

So if it's not based on financial income v loss it can only be based on this: You don't want people with other cultures coming in and diluting yours. I think it's a fair point of view, you can think what you like - you can't help the way you feel about it I suppose. But, to me, it is very closed minded and arrogant and it certainly cannot realistically be based on welfare abuse or impact on social services because it just isn't true.

This post has been edited by DrWu: 06 June 2013 - 02:51 PM


#39 User is offline   Sticky 

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Posted 06 June 2013 - 03:01 PM

You're basing your opinions on nothing other than 'they're foreign'. You have no idea how immigration affects you on a personal level. You don't know the fiscal impact of immigration. You have absolutely no idea how many immigrants have come here or how many 'abuse our welfare systems'. You don't know how much is paid by our government to people who move here, and you don't know how much those people spend on our goods and services and thereby pay taxes of some sort even if not income based. You will not seek out this information because you are lazy and you've already made your base judgement simply on the fact that they are foreign and they don't belong here, and I doubt even finding the facts will sway your opinion. So I don't expect you to read any of this or take any of it in, but I might as well try.

I just accused you of not knowing about the fiscal impact of immigration on the UK, and I know you don't know because nobody does, not accurately. I've read loads about it because it's a topic that is of interest to me, because it may end up having an impact on me on a personal level (taxes paid, jobs etc) so I know how hard it is to come to a definite conclusion. So all studies use a similar system which uses assumptions about certain factors, and the results will change by study depending on how those assumptions change. Almost every study, however, comes to a similar conclusion: the impact of immigration to the UK has a positive, though small, effect on the economy. This means we make more from them than they take from us.

Quote

Gott and Johnston (2002) pointed out that they could only provide tentative results. Their study concluded that the overall contribution of migrants was positive, but that the impact varies with the characteristics of migrants. The estimates suggest that for the fiscal year 1999-2000 migrants in the UK contributed GBP 31.2 billion in taxes and used benefits and state services valued at GBP 28.8 billion. Therefore, the net fiscal contribution of migrants was approximately GBP 2.5 billion.


Quote

In the four fiscal years following EU enlargement in 2004, migrants from the A8 countries made a positive contribution to public finance, despite the UK running a budget deficit
A study evaluating the fiscal impact of immigration from the A8 countries (those which joined the EU in 2004 and which did not already enjoy right of entry to the UK) found that in the four fiscal years after 2004 (i.e. 2005-2006, 2006-2007, 2007-2008 and 2008-2009), A8 migrants made a positive contribution to public finances (Dustmann et al. 2010). While A8 migrants work mostly in lower wage occupations, they have high labour force participation rates and employment rates, a fact which offsets the impact of their lower wages.

The study by Dustmann et al (2010) also finds that even if A8 migrants had the same characteristics as UK-born individuals they would still be less likely to receive government benefits and social housing


A8 are the 8 countries who joined the EU in 2004 and led to this influx of horrible foreigners, as I'm sure you know.

And to counter that, from the same link:

Quote

A report by the Institute for Public Policy Research (IPPR), presented an updated version of the Home Office analysis (Sriskandarajah et al. 2005). Its main contribution was to extend the estimation to cover five years of data. The IPPR analysis suggests that real revenues from migrants grew by 22% from fiscal year 1999-2000 to fiscal year 2003-2004 (reaching GBP 41.2 billion). However, the expenditure associated with immigrants reached GBP 41.6 billion in the fiscal year 2003-2004. Therefore, the net- contribution of immigrants in the fiscal year 2003-2004 was negative at GBP -0.4 billion.


Which you'd think means actually you might be right, they could well be costing us money. But...

Quote

Sriskandarajah et al. (2005) argue that the relevant measure is not the actual net figure, but the ratio of migrants’ contributions to migrants’ consumption of public services. This ratio is referred to as the net annual fiscal contribution (NAFI).

IPPR’s analysis suggests that the NAFI for migrants in 1999-2000 was 1.06, higher than the UK-born value (1.01). For 2003-2004, the difference between migrants and the UK-born increased; the NAFI for migrants was 0.99 compared to 0.88 for the UK-born. The fact that the NAFI was less than one suggests that in 2003-2004 the net fiscal contribution of migrants was negative, but that it was “less negative” than that of the UK-born individuals.


Oh. So they're costing less money than we are.

source: http://migrationobse...-immigration-uk

Another source:

Quote

The economic benefit of immigration to the UK is revealed today in a report showing that halting net migration would cost every taxpayer in the country £137,000 over their lifetime.


http://www.independe...rs-8555344.html

Now feel free to find sources that go some way to back up your views, I'm sure there will be some somewhere. Don't just base your terrible opinions on baseless facts that you source from going to Tesco and seeing loads of foreigners who are talking funny.


I could also post a fucking shitload of stats that tell you how much alcohol costs the NHS and smoking costs the NHS and drunk white men fighting and drinking in town centres on weekends costs the NHS and police and other services, and even more about how much lazy white British wankers won't get a job because they're fucking lazy and so employers employ low-paid foreign workers because they work like fuck for fuck all money and still do a good job.

There may be problems with people coming here illegally (that's always happened, and always will) and those people should be dealt with, but hard-working, family men and women who come here because they're happy to do low-paid work that our own citizens won't go near to provide for their families are more fucking welcome here than the UKIP EDL BNP fascist fucking morons who can't string a sentence together and then complain about people talking foreign. I dunno, maybe you'll read the quotes I posted or the links that provided them, or at least the parts I emphasised, but I expect you to skip to the end and read the sweary bits and call me a dickhead and your opinion won't change. Fair enough. Just know that your opinion is wrong and bathed in racism.

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Posted 06 June 2013 - 03:02 PM

High Five DrWu!

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